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JT
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Date: 4/7/2008 1:45 pm · Subject: Re: 7.6 and beyond · Rating: 0
> But I would like to show you that if you say 'hey, you know what,
> let's have a development cycle that is predictable' you actually
> stick to it so that it is predictable.
>
So you don't want me to make promises I can't keep, but you do want me
to change the world into a sterile black and white place where
everything is predictable so that I can make a decision and never
change it? Ok, I'll file that under things to change when I'm elected
god.
> In that line it might be better to do as Yung suggested and keep the
> half year cycle at least another half year to see if it proves
> itself and then possibly change it to a yearly cycle.
>
Glad to finally have your opinion on this. I don't expect to make a
decision on this until July once I've seen how this release cycle
completes. I'll probably announce the decision at the WUC.
Regardless of what decision I make for the next year's worth of
development (1 or 2 releases), there will be a 1 year dev cycle for
WebGUI 8 as I've already stated.
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koen
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Date: 4/7/2008 2:25 pm · Subject: Re: 7.6 and beyond · Rating: 0
> But I would like to show you that if you say 'hey, you know what,
> let's have a development cycle that is predictable' you actually
> stick to it so that it is predictable.
>
So you don't want me to make promises I can't keep, but you do want me
to change the world into a sterile black and white place where
everything is predictable so that I can make a decision and never
change it?
No I do not want you to make the world into a sterile black and white place.
You agree with me that the goal of a development cycle is predictability, right?
What I'm asking for is to make it even more predictable by announcing at the start of a new directive when that directive will be evaluated.
Ok, I'll file that under things to change when I'm elected god.
Are we going to have an election?
> In that line it might be better to do as Yung suggested and keep the
> half year cycle at least another half year to see if it proves
> itself and then possibly change it to a yearly cycle.
>
Glad to finally have your opinion on this. I don't expect to make a
decision on this until July once I've seen how this release cycle
completes. I'll probably announce the decision at the WUC.
Regardless of what decision I make for the next year's worth of
development (1 or 2 releases), there will be a 1 year dev cycle for
WebGUI 8 as I've already stated.
Ah, ok. That is clear, and very predictable as far as I am concerned.
Koen de Jonge - ProcoliX
http://www.procolix.com
Hosting - WebGUI - Virtualization
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Vrby
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Date: 4/7/2008 1:45 pm · Subject: Re: 7.6 and beyond · Rating: 0
Ok, So I've been reading this thing for quite awhile and I think this is the first time I've posted.
Koen - Your comments are completely out of line for this discussion. JT's done the best he can at giving you a release strategy, I'm not sure what more you can ask from him. Nothing in this world is a for sure, and we would be stupid to say that it is. Every product has a dev cycle and every company tries to stick to it, but new things come along and new arguments are brought up all the time as to why the schedule should change. They would be idiots and out of business, if they didn't make changes.
While your point number 3 is absolutely correct, your inferrence that JT or Plain Black is making changes without careful thought is dead wrong and it invalidates for me anything you've said in this thread to this point. You may not agree with all the changes we make. That's fine. Present your arguments as to why you think it should be different. But don't you dare imply that our decisions aren't made with the good of WebGUI, Plain Black and the users, in mind.
Jamie
On Apr 7, 2008, at 12:17 PM, <koen@procolix.com> wrote:
koen wrote:
If the descision to switch to a year long release cycle is made now, how long will it stay in place? I know that if it doesn't work well it will have to be changed. When will the choice for this period of time be re-evaluated? March 2009? August 2009?
As far as I'm concerned pretty much everything is fluid. Anything is open to re-evaluation at any time. I'm not infallible like the Pope. =) If someone has an idea that's solves a problem in a significantly better way than I solved it, then we should move that direction.
As far as this release cycle question goes. If we did a year long
release cycle, I think it would probably stay that way permanently.
The only thing I can see changing that (at this point, since I'm not a fortune teller either) is:
Starting July '09 we're going to begin work on WebGUI 8. Something might come up in that process that requires us to delay a release, but I would work hard to make sure that the WG8 dev process went out on schedule, which is currently set for July 2010.
To sum up:
1) JT is not the Pope.
2) JT is not a fortune teller.
3) WebGUI 8 is planned to be a 1 year dev cycle.
4) Someone may come up with a reason after we decide to go to a rigid 12 month release cycle that makes it so we have to go back to a 6 month cycle after we make the move.
After this last try I will give up on getting straight answers from JT. In between the lines I read this: 1) For now a 1 year or a 1/2 year dev cycle will probably be used.
2) There is no garantee that PlainBlack will not change this at any give time if anyone comes up with a good argument to do that.
3) If you have to plan on anything, you'd better not plan on WebGUI since in all planning and dates around WebGUI pretty much everything is fluid. What I would like to have read was this: We will evaluate the one year dev cycle after using it for at least one year, that is probably in June or July 2009. Koen de Jonge - ProcoliX
http://www.procolix.com
Hosting - WebGUI - Virtualization
http://www.plainblack.com/webgui/dev/discuss/7_6-and-beyond/11117
--
Plain Black, makers of WebGUI
http://plainblack.com
Jamie Vrbsky - Plain Blackph: 703-286-2525 x830fax: 312-264-5382
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koen
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Date: 4/7/2008 2:58 pm · Subject: Re: 7.6 and beyond · Rating: 0
Jamie,
naturally I exaggurated (a lot) on what I would have read between the lines.
If exagguration is not allowed or accounted for in these discussions than I am not the only one who should change it's style in responses.
I never (not even on wrong side of the tracks of the wrong side of the planet named "Wrong") said that JT or Plain Black is making descisions without careful thought, ever. On the contrary, I think that JT and Plain Black are always making descisions in the opposite of a vacuum. I am not a Pope or a Saint or a fortune teller either.
I value PlainBlack and it's staff as very competent people (not popes or saints) that are worthy of a serious response to important issues about the development of WebGUI and all that is going on in relation to that.
It is also my consern that WebGUI (and PlainBlack for that matter) are thriving, both financially as emotionally.
I think that JT and PlainBlack are trying to work very hard at doing the best they can, and I admire that.
My argument is that if JT can say exactly how far he can go in promising things that would give more certainty. But I do not seem to master the English language enough to get that across. Or maybe JT just disagrees with me on that point, however I think that also in that my English should get better to get that clear.
I feel very intimidated by the "you are completely out of line" and "don't you dare impy". I am truly sorry if I have offended someone (anyone) at Plain Black, I did not want that to happen.
Koen
Ok, So I've been reading this thing for quite awhile and I think this is the first time I've posted.
Koen - Your comments are completely out of line for this discussion. JT's done the best he can at giving you a release strategy, I'm not sure what more you can ask from him. Nothing in this world is a for sure, and we would be stupid to say that it is. Every product has a dev cycle and every company tries to stick to it, but new things come along and new arguments are brought up all the time as to why the schedule should change. They would be idiots and out of business, if they didn't make changes.
While your point number 3 is absolutely correct, your inferrence that JT or Plain Black is making changes without careful thought is dead wrong and it invalidates for me anything you've said in this thread to this point. You may not agree with all the changes we make. That's fine. Present your arguments as to why you think it should be different. But don't you dare imply that our decisions aren't made with the good of WebGUI, Plain Black and the users, in mind.
Jamie
Koen de Jonge - ProcoliX
http://www.procolix.com
Hosting - WebGUI - Virtualization
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